Interview Même Cosmetics

Background: Même Cosmetics participated in the second edition of the OncoEntrepreneur Program. We decided to interview them to get a feedback on their start-up experience and their perspective on the Program.

Cancer Campus : How was your project born?

Même Cosmetics : Our project was born from our professional experiences because Judith lost her mother almost 7 years ago and I have almost all the women in my family who have gone through this and we realized as daughters of sick mothers and relatives of sick women that when you are undergoing anti-cancer treatment you have to face very specific needs in terms of skin. As we are both very fond of cosmetics, we looked for solutions in pharmacies and in organic stores and we found nothing. We found ourselves at a loss when faced with these unmet needs. We both met at L'Oréal, Judith was the one who had this idea in the first place, she told me about it and immediately it clicked, we said to ourselves that we had to work on this, there was a real need and we didn't understand how no brand had thought of it or dared to do it.

Cancer Campus : what is the need?

Juliette : Under treatment, there are reactions that can be seen from the outside, for example, the hair is lost and the scalp is damaged because the hair that protects the scalp is gone, the wig is itchy. We also have splitting of the nails, cracks, and even loss of the nails. These are things that we do not know when we are not sick. There is also the hand-foot syndrome which is an extreme dryness of the hands and feet and burning and itching sensations which can be very disabling because small wounds and big cracks can appear and prevent from walking normally or writing when the syndrome is too advanced. However, this can be limited if we hydrate as much as possible from the beginning of the treatments when we are informed by the health care team. There are many effects like these; generally speaking, the skin becomes extremely dry. This is caused by chemotherapy, immunotherapy and targeted therapies.

Cancer Campus : And radiotherapy?

Juliette : Radiation therapy burns the skin. We have not yet tackled this subject; it is a more medicinal response that must be brought to this, moreover in radiotherapy doctors advise not to apply any solution to avoid deflecting the rays.

Cancer Campus : So it's known by the doctors but they don't pay attention to it?

Judith : These needs are known by the doctors but most of them do not have the time to deal with this because their priority is to eradicate the tumor or other metastasis and you know as well as we do the programs in charge of the oncologists who have very little time per patient and therefore do not have the time to address this subject. Patients have priority questions rather than talking about their skin problem. We are a bit helpless in front of this, we have experienced this with our mothers, there is very little information on all this. My mother had a hand-foot syndrome without ever knowing how to anticipate, prevent or limit it and she could no longer bear to walk and hold a pen so she asked her oncologist to stop the treatment and we know the end... The oncologists are very well aware of the importance of certain side effects and undesirable effects of the treatments since they are sometimes a cause for stopping the treatments and it's a terrible failure for them when it happens like that but they lack time. Since my mother died, things have improved considerably: there have been cancer plans, the arrival and development of supportive care, which means that we are beginning to take care of those who are "on the side" of the disease in France, and the care pathway is better developed, particularly in anti-cancer centers. There is about one socio-aesthetician per cancer center, which does not mean that there are many socio-aestheticians per patient... Women are now easily able to find information on the internet and ask themselves many questions.

Juliette : Yes, from the desire to answer their questions, both with products and also with content that we have on our website and which is very important to us because we go beyond the products. We try to gather all the beauty and well being advices that we received from oncologists, dermatologists, nurses and patients themselves who talked to us about all these things that allow to live better.

Cancer Campus : What about your academic background?

Judith : We have very different backgrounds. I'm an industrial designer originally, so I was in charge of packaging but not only (laughs) and Juliette went to Science Po and then HEC, so our skills were quite different but complementary, which made it easier for us to launch the company. We didn't need anyone for almost a year. We didn't need anyone except a laboratory and a chemist; we outsourced that part.

Cancer Campus : In which edition of the OncoEntrepreneur Program did you participate?

Juliette : 2015/2016

Cancer Campus : What was the status of your project at the time you attended the OncoEntrepreneur Program?

Judith : We created the company in January 2015 so we had created the company in the legal and juridical sense. We were in the middle of formulating our products at that time with our R&D partners. We had product prototypes and lots of projects.

Juliette : Our objectives at that time were to conduct a clinical study on the products we were formulating and to raise funds to finance this clinical study.

Cancer Campus : How has the OncoEntrepreneur program helped you?

Judith : This gave us a lot of legitimacy. It is a label that was very interesting for us because we needed (even today) to make ourselves known to the medical community and this label made us quickly credible in the eyes of the nursing staff. It also gave us legitimacy for our fundraising. We were also able to meet many people and expand our network in the field of oncology.

Cancer Campus : How do you formulate a cream, for example, since you are not scientists?

Judith : We understood from our experiences in the cosmetics industry that many products are composed of endocrine disruptors that can disrupt cells at the hormonal level. We absolutely did not want any of this in our formulas. We wanted to make organic cosmetics but we realized after having discussed with oncologists that organic cosmetics were a disaster for sick women because essential oils are used to preserve the skin and they are hyper allergenic when you are not in good health and you have sensitive or damaged skin. We were in a dead end from the beginning and the challenge was to compose formulas without harmful ingredients and that the products are pleasant. It took a long time because we had to devote a year to create our 7 formulas (P&B Group laboratory) with a list of 400 ingredients that we did not want in our formulas and that we meticulously listed on an Excel file. Laurent Dodet, who is the director of this laboratory, was the first person we met after a week. It was our first partner and we met him very quickly then we presented him our project which was on 2 and a half slides and which did not give desire when we look back at the presentation. He immediately believed in it and must have been touched by it because he was very sensitive to what we were telling him and he told us "I imagine that you don't have much money since you just finished your internship, so I'm going to put my R&D teams on your project and I'm sure that you'll find financing, you'll pay me when you can. And thanks to him and to the fact that little by little we had real products to present, everything was a virtuous circle because once we had the products, going to see the investors with something concrete allowed them to project themselves and it is clearly thanks to him that we are where we are today.

Cancer Campus : What recommendations would you make to the OncoEntrepreneur program?

Judith : There was a lack of projects that were a little less focused among the project holders.

Juliette : There are plenty of them at the moment, in addition to projects focused on well-being, alongside the disease. We have been part of the HEC and Science Po incubators and the interest is to be able to share experiences with others who are either going through the same thing or not at all the same thing but who bring us something. The more varied the profiles and the subjects, the more we can bring each other. We sometimes felt on the sidelines in relation to biotech companies (we didn't understand anything about what they were doing) because there was a lot of synergy but we didn't know what to bring to them and vice versa. However, this allowed us to have serious contacts at Gustave Roussy, very reputable doctors and scientists that we would not have been able to meet otherwise.

Cancer Campus: Have you kept in touch with other OncoEntrepreneurs?

Même: No no but the other day we wrote to each other with, I have a problem with the first names because of the jetlag I returned from the United States, Sarah I think the one who had put us in contact...

Cancer Campus: We are trying to work on the fact that there is a community of alumni, that there are more links, more follow-up, that there is really a way to stay in touch on the platform.

Cancer Campus: or even to promote some successful projects.

Même: I think that doing small events one night in a bar in Paris could also be a way to keep the link on a regular basis because the IGR is a bit far.

Cancer Campus: and it's not very funny either (laughs)

Même : It is not bad your small house of the project but to go there it requires an effort as there is not yet the subway it is complicated.

Cancer Campus: and what is the current situation in your company?

Même: Since we joined the program, we have finished formulating the product and we have conducted a clinical study at the Léon Bérard Center in Lyon and at the Jean Mermoz private hospital in Lyon on 70 women undergoing treatment, a project that was quite demanding throughout 2016 because we had to request authorization from the ANSM, which was a mess because it was very complicated to obtain. We had a first refusal, we had to work again and lobby as hard as we could with the ANSM so that it would work because they were a little reluctant. We didn't understand why, then we managed to get the authorization in September, we could start the study which ended at the end of 2016 and we could market the product from the end of January 2017, so it's been a little more than three months now. It's brand new we had time to mature our project we took more than two years before launching it because in fact the ANSM made us lose quite a bit of time, so we were ready before but we lost time and here is the price. Our products are marketed on our website and in pharmacies because we had a lot of incoming calls from pharmacists who were very interested in our products. At the beginning, we wanted to work on digital because it's easier for a young start-up and in the end, we started to work on pharmacies because we realized that there is a real demand and also the fact that our customers are sometimes a little bit older and don't necessarily want to buy on the Internet, so we are developing this distribution tax. And the other big issue this year is also, we spend our time in cancer wards to talk about the brand and to make doctors and nurses aware of it, so it takes up most of our time.

Cancer Campus: How do pharmacists react when you present your products to them?

Même: They are very interested because it's a dermo-cosmetic brand but it's a bit different from all the brands they see all day long.

Cancer Campus: In pharmacies, these products are noticeable.

Même : Yes, after that there are more and more cosmetics, but it's also interesting for them because they have the impression that they can bring to their patients, to whom they give things that are not funny all day long, so it also allows them to talk about other things and to bring a little more to their daily life. In any case for the moment we have a lot of requests, we still have about fifteen more in the last 15 days so it's going well.

Cancer Campus: So is your product line complete or are you still planning to add cosmetics?

Même: Exactly. We recruited Meillat, arrived in January. She is an engineer from Paris Tech and is specialized in cosmetics. Her mission is to develop all our products, so we have a range of nail polish that will be released soon, a range of makeup. And in a more prospective way we are also working on a sun protection but it is more complicated.

Cancer Campus: So your products are made in France?

Même: Yes, that's right. Everything is made in France in Aix-en-Provence and in Brest for the gloves and slippers.

Cancer Campus: And you are able to manage between distribution and production?

Même : It is a galley of all the moments and it is for that that we surrounded ourselves well we are not all alone it is a big job.

Cancer Campus: And in terms of prices, where do you stand?

Même: we are between 9,90€ and 24,90€.

We wanted to be absolutely accessible.

Cancer Campus: How do you see your company in 10 years?

Même: so there... Already when we are asked in five years we don't know, so in 10 years it's still far away ( laughs )

I hope that we will be on the international scene, that's our goal because we realize that finally there are a lot of projects that are born here and that deserve to cross the borders, already we have orders from Switzerland, Belgium so we feel that there are surely a lot of things to do when we translate even in Spanish, in German, ...

Cancer Campus: In the United States, this type of product does not exist at all?

Même: If there is a brand that has existed for quite a long time, for a good ten years, which is not in the same spirit as ours, which is less in the femininity which is a little more medicated in the spirit, which works rather well over there since it has existed for 10 years and it is rather well deployed, it is just horrible in terms of formulation so if we go one day on the American market ... In addition they are quite sensitive to these problems of ingredients that are subject to doubts so we will have a lot of things to bring to differentiate ourselves, then we will be French,( laugh) : French touch !

Cancer Campus: How would you react if a large group wanted to buy you?

Même: We know that there are big groups that are looking at us, so we are not thinking about it for the moment, in any case it is not on the agenda because we want to develop all our products that we have on our "to do" in an independent way and in the same way that we do it here because as Judith said, at L'Oréal it would have surely taken three months of product development. It was very important for us to have this start-up and flexible spirit, so we will keep it as much as possible. Afterwards, we'll see because we know very well that at some point we'll reach a kind of ceiling where we'll either continue to exhaust ourselves against the blows because it's still more complicated or we'll decide to make partnerships and things like that but for the moment we'll continue. We try to make our baby grow and to bring it as far as possible, we will see afterwards.

Cancer Campus: Would you have a little word for the next OncoEntrepreneur, the next participants in the program, an advice to give them?

Même: We are the proof that we should not hesitate and that it can bring a lot of things and it's always interesting to be mixed with much more scientific than us even if we don't understand much of what they say.

Cancer Campus: Did you learn about financing,... Did you participate in the Master classes?

Même: We were in the middle of fundraising at that time and we had talked a lot about the Master classes on financing in particular.

Cancer Campus: Have you been trained to pitch?

Même: No, it's not.

Cancer Campus: This year we have integrated the pitches. Did you want to train for the Pitch?

Même: We've done so many (laughs) we can't take it anymore if we could stop pitching it would be great, we've done at least 50 I think or 100.

Cancer Campus: So we started that this year.

Même: Ah that's a good thing, I think for pure scientists it's important.

Cancer Campus: There were venture capitalists who came, the OncoEntrepreneurs pitched in front of them and gave their advice, so they had legitimate feedback from investors in situation.

Même: I remember that the entrance jury was very interesting for us because the jury had gone to Lannemezan, there were people who were quite knowledgeable on a lot of different subjects and we had questions that trained us well, it was quite hard but we appreciated it because it was interesting so yes, the Pitch was important.

Cancer Campus: Do you currently pay yourself? Do you have a turnover?

Même: So we don't pay ourselves with our turnover, we pay ourselves with our fund raising since one year and we recruited a small team but today we have a turnover that is starting to come in which is a little bit below the objectives but it starts well.

Cancer Campus: So there are six of you?

Même: Yes, that's right.

Cancer Campus: What are the positions about?

Même: We have Charlotte who is in charge of e-commerce and digital who arrived a year ago, we have Meillat who is in charge of product development, and we have Victoire who is in charge of logistics, I (Judith) am more in charge of the brand communication and marketing part and Juliette is in charge of the commercial part and also of the scientific communication, especially with the medical community. It is Juliette who managed the clinical study part, for example, and who is now addressing the pharmacies.

Cancer Campus: During your project, did your view of cosmetics change when you discovered their composition?

Même: We had already discovered that when we were working at L'Oréal, the backstage and what a luxury perfume costs. Our vision of facts and cosmetics changes every day as we are very interested in this subject, we read a lot of things about it, we are interested in everything that comes out in many countries, so we are always on the lookout and we see that things are starting to move in a certain direction and we try to be a little ahead. Two years ago, we started to talk about endocrine disruptors, but not too much, and then since the beginning of the year, there are at least four files in Le Monde, UFC - Que Choisir, which made the Buzz and the fact that there were some in Avene, Laroche Posay... We didn't understand why, because we can do without. So we are happy to be in the right dynamics. After that, it is sure that we are the first users of our products, we have products that are more specific but really usable only by sick women, for example the scalp mist as well as the gloves and slippers that are for the hand-foot syndrome I was talking about and the nail care to avoid cracks etc. and the rest are products that are more daily face cream, body cream and shower gel that meet the formulation load that we have built for a total range.

Cancer Campus: And are your customers satisfied?

Même: Go see on the site (laughs) we have a small wall of letters from women who write to us, they tell us they are happy and on the site and leave their opinion on the product page, we have great feedback is a great reward.

Cancer Campus: And if you moved, where would you go?

Même: Why relocate?

Cancer Campus: Because you said it was a little small.

Même: In fact, we have a landlord who has about 60 buildings in the area, so he will be able to move us into a slightly larger space, which is already planned.

Cancer Campus: No, but I wasn't calling for Villejuif (laughs). Maybe when the metro comes?

Même: Ah when there will be the metro why not (laughs).

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